Is the future wireless or more fiber?

Anything related to technology, past, present and future
Post Reply
LoveMeSomeCALTE
Posts: 236
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:29 pm
Has thanked: 235 times
Been thanked: 27 times

Is the future wireless or more fiber?

Post by LoveMeSomeCALTE » Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:35 pm

Domestically in the continental U.S. - do y'all think the future holds more wireless or way more fiber for data?

Both Starlink and TMo Home are making waves these months but my concern is that current tech. is not meant to support modern loads (TB+ volume) - but who knows what the future holds!

Plus - arn't people moving out of cities now that makes fiber/cabling more of an issue?

Thoughts?

mtl26637
Posts: 184
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:35 pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 65 times

Re: Is the future wireless or more fiber?

Post by mtl26637 » Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:01 pm

Both. Wireless has a long way to go to reach 5G full potential and on the other hand laying fiber for local telco companies seems as common as running copper was 30-50 years ago. It's amazing what my local telco provider has accomplished with expanding their footprint in the past 5 years, well, except down my road and to their 'prior' customers.

Dr-BroadBand
Posts: 515
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:52 am
Location: Texas
Has thanked: 86 times
Been thanked: 108 times

Re: Is the future wireless or more fiber?

Post by Dr-BroadBand » Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:40 pm

Future wireless or more fiber?..... Yes & Yes

They both have Por's and Con's
If you build it they will come.

I think StarLink has them scared

LoveMeSomeCALTE
Posts: 236
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:29 pm
Has thanked: 235 times
Been thanked: 27 times

Re: Is the future wireless or more fiber?

Post by LoveMeSomeCALTE » Thu Oct 07, 2021 2:26 pm

Dr-BroadBand wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:40 pm
I think StarLink has them scared
Probably - my concern is that StarLink is way harder to scale than fiber. The telcos know this but most customers haven't realized this yet - so they are shifting to StarLink, for now, while StarLink is very lightly loaded.

This is causing ripple effects on the telcos side - but HOW LONG will this pressure last?
mtl26637 wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:01 pm
well, except down my road and to their 'prior' customers.
Can you expand on this a more?

For me - I live in a rural community and our local state and county representatives were very excited with the new regulations they passed.

Unfortunately, what they did was just START to solve the backbone problem that would pay off in a few years in the best case.


However, WE, the users live miles away from where the backbones lie - so unless SOMETHING ELSE helps us hookup our homes to those backbones - to us, those backbones are as good as dead.

Maybe this will make internet in the city better but that don't help us rural billies.

mtl26637
Posts: 184
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:35 pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 65 times

Re: Is the future wireless or more fiber?

Post by mtl26637 » Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:42 pm

Back few years ago, the only option that was available to me was vdsl2. About 10 years ago local telco ran a fiber trunk line through the county and looped connecting a few towns. One of their dslam's is located about 3/4 mi. down the road. I had them come back out and find out why my dl/ul speeds were less than 1mbps on upload and at the time they said 'thats the best they could do', all while they began to branch out from their central office and offer ftth and tv services to new customers. Since then in the past few years they have now branched out into at least 3 other counties and have ran many miles of new fiber line and running local ads for services. All while I still set here as what was once an 'existing customer' with no options other than their overpriced dsl services. Pretty shitty imo, don't care about you if they were already putting your money in their pocket, just doing whatever it takes to get new customers. Not to mention their pricing scheme was double what other providers are/were. I was paying almost $100/mo for 5down/0.5up until I stumbled across LTE options.

Many of the small local telco providers did the same thing. 10+ years ago one of the big ISP's ran a large trunk line across the state and all of the local telco providers tapped into that trunk to offer new services. Prices steeply increase for the exact same services the farther away from the 'big' city you get and all coming from the exact same trunk line. Why you ask.., cause they can.

LoveMeSomeCALTE
Posts: 236
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:29 pm
Has thanked: 235 times
Been thanked: 27 times

Re: Is the future wireless or more fiber?

Post by LoveMeSomeCALTE » Thu Oct 07, 2021 5:39 pm

mtl26637 wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:42 pm
I was paying almost $100/mo for 5down/0.5up until I stumbled across LTE options.
Oh - it's the same for us where we live - only difference is they offer only upto 1.5down/0.5up for $70/mo.

In 2021.

So when I say my community has no wired options, that's technically wrong. We do have an option through ATT for 1.5down/0.5up at $70/mo.

Solving the last mile connectivity problem is a big ticket item on my agenda once the backhauls get built (hopefully) over the next few years as the telcos try and tap into the rural broadband funds.

Adm1jtg
Posts: 364
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:19 pm
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 109 times

Re: Is the future wireless or more fiber?

Post by Adm1jtg » Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:58 pm

in my area dsl isnt even an option. so no cable option at all.telco lines are 20+ years old and dsl has been "full" for over 7 years. Satellite is completely oversaturated both viasat and hughesnet cant even get 1 meg down. Cell access is so bad cant even make a reliable call without a booster or router assisting.

So to answer the original question, fiber will likely not be an option in my area for many many many years as we literally have more cows then people. I am sure there are many others in a situtation like mine and a wired option will simply not be financially viable for any cable company.

Unlike many in here I went to cellular as it was the ONLY option to get internet and to be able to make phone calls from the house. Yes in 2021 I couldnt make a call from my house, on ANY carrier or stream a single video. For people like me wireless is going to be the ONLY option for a very long time.

LoveMeSomeCALTE
Posts: 236
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:29 pm
Has thanked: 235 times
Been thanked: 27 times

Re: Is the future wireless or more fiber?

Post by LoveMeSomeCALTE » Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:30 pm

I sometimes wonder if the U.S. is indeed the developed nation it's hyped up to be.

Most countries that were "3rd world" have better connectivity in their rural villages than we do.

Granted - they got a headstart by leadfrogging over a lot of legacy infra. that the U.S. struggles with but when I read post like yours, Adm1jtg, it really makes me sad.
Adm1jtg wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:58 pm
Unlike many in here I went to cellular as it was the ONLY option to get internet and to be able to make phone calls from the house. Yes in 2021 I couldnt make a call from my house, on ANY carrier or stream a single video. For people like me wireless is going to be the ONLY option for a very long time.
To be clear - the only wired option in a 100 mile radius is upto 1.5down/0.5up for $70/mo. I would say you and I are in the same boat for all practical purposes - and there are actually MANY in this same boat than you probably imagine.
Adm1jtg wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:58 pm
For people like me wireless is going to be the ONLY option for a very long time.
I repeat this again - I think there are people out there who live in the city or very near a city with wired options available, abuse the hell out of their LTE connections.

The impact of telcos trying to curb these abusive behaviorw and people for who wireless is going to be the ONLY option getting caught in that cross fire is debilitating.

MattB29
Posts: 195
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:09 pm
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 44 times

Re: Is the future wireless or more fiber?

Post by MattB29 » Fri Oct 08, 2021 6:31 am

LoveMeSomeCALTE wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:30 pm
...
I repeat this again - I think there are people out there who live in the city or very near a city with wired options available, abuse the hell out of their LTE connections.

The impact of telcos trying to curb these abusive behaviorw and people for who wireless is going to be the ONLY option getting caught in that cross fire is debilitating.
I agree 100%.

Where I live is extremely rural with probably 10 people in a 5 mile radius. If it was not for the old Rural Electrification act there would be no power out here. Similar reason for POTS. It is unlikely that there ever would be a economic reason to run out fiber. If I was to lose my cellular Internet due to the telcos mis-reacting to abusive behavior it would be a big lost.

I do blame the cellular companies for their game playing. They love the advertisement of services that they expect people to not make use of. Such as unlimited Data from devices where no one is likely to use much data from (phones) and highly limited data when operating as data delivery such as tethering or hotspot.

LoveMeSomeCALTE
Posts: 236
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:29 pm
Has thanked: 235 times
Been thanked: 27 times

Re: Is the future wireless or more fiber?

Post by LoveMeSomeCALTE » Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:35 am

MattB29 wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 6:31 am
Where I live is extremely rural with probably 10 people in a 5 mile radius. If it was not for the old Rural Electrification act there would be no power out here. Similar reason for POTS. It is unlikely that there ever would be a economic reason to run out fiber. If I was to lose my cellular Internet due to the telcos mis-reacting to abusive behavior it would be a big lost.
I am sure this applies to your case - but to be clear - if any of my neighbors (or I) could not reliably connect out to the internet over LTE, we would lose our livelihood, specially with a lot of employers moving to WFH.

My 3rd neighbor - lives ~2 miles away drills wells.

This is as far away from a WFH situation as you can get. His employer turned their offices, where they used to meet, into warehouses and asked everyone to just WFH - they have meetings in the morning before leaving for work to the location they need to drill that day/week.

Now this specific employer is a big local player, so they were ready to setup their own WISP to support their employees but our NGO group was able to redirect those funds to maintaining and improving our LTE infra instead (modems, routers and interlink and group plans, of course)

However, not every employer is going to be so accommodating - for one, they are not even a 3rd as big. They would probably just hire people with better internet.
MattB29 wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 6:31 am
I do blame the cellular companies for their game playing. They love the advertisement of services that they expect people to not make use of. Such as unlimited Data from devices where no one is likely to use much data from (phones) and highly limited data when operating as data delivery such as tethering or hotspot.
I have been conflicted about "unlimited data" for a while.

From the telcos POV, if 95% if their customers don't use more than 1TB Data, is not a 1TB Data "unlimited data" then?

You and I would like a 1TB Data plan to be advertised as such - but what if all their competition are not doing the same?

As a customer, would you rather sign up for the "unlimited data" plan or the 1TB Data plan?

I am sure - if you asked any random stranger, if 1TB Data would meet their needs they would be clueless so for them, an "unlimited data" plan is a risk free way of handling/addressing their ignorance.

Post Reply