Single or 2 15dbi mimo antennas is there a difference?

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Macusers
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Single or 2 15dbi mimo antennas is there a difference?

Post by Macusers » Mon Oct 11, 2021 6:05 pm

700-2700MHz 15dBi Cellular 5G 4G LTE Directional Antenna (Linear ± 45°) N Female Connector
$88.75

High Power Wide Band Multi-carrier Cellular 5G 4G LTE Directional Antenna



700-2700MHz HIGH POWER 15dBi 2x MIMO Cellular 5G 4G LTE Directional Antenna (+45°/-45°) N Female Connectors

$155.00

High Power Wide Band Multi-Carrier Cellular 5G 4G LTE 2×2 MIMO Flat Panel Directional Antenna

LTEfix has 2 options for there 15dbi antenna. One has it broken up into 2 antennas and 1 that is built in with both. One is obviously easier to install but is there an advantage or disadvantage on buying 2 or 1 with it built in. Will one give me better signal and speeds over the other? If there is no difference then one is slightly cheaper. This will be used with a nighthawk m5 router with Mimo. Wanted to know if there is much of a difference.

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mtl26637
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Re: Single or 2 15dbi mimo antennas is there a difference?

Post by mtl26637 » Mon Oct 11, 2021 7:43 pm

IMO, 2 is better than one, however, if both antenna's are identical then i'd guess the combined antenna would be very similar. Having 2 singles you could spread them out or point in slightly different directions for 'better' diversity but I wouldn't think you would gain much. I guess it all depends on your signal too, if you have decent signal already then I'd it be more convenient to go with combined unit. Been researching antenna's/design/LTE/RF pretty extensively lately and have come to the conclusion that best case scenario are to avoid 'wide bandwidth' antennas and look for single antennas that are tightened down in your specific bands you are connecting to but that taking things further than typical users will need to do. The wide bandwidth antennas work over a wide range, however, the gains are lower across the entire covered spectrum.

Just an fyi for anyone else curious or looking, I've also been through my fair share of different types and styles of antennas (cheap and pricey). It's a pretty safe bet that if you stick with ltefix store you are purchasing what I would consider quality antennas. Some of the cheap ones out there are just that and severely inflate their claims to gain. Not trying to say there aren't good ones out there, but it can be a risk to take if you don't know them or the brand already. LOL, no affiliation to the site either, just based on personal observation.

What carrier are you planning to go with? We may be able to further suggest based on what typical bands that provider uses if you don't know them already or cellmapper is a good place to know which bands certain carriers have available in your area too.

On final note, I purchased a couple of the "AD 1DP727L15 NF" couple years ago and am very pleased with quality and gain even though they are wideband.

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Re: Single or 2 15dbi mimo antennas is there a difference?

Post by Adm1jtg » Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:27 pm

Just be carful when you read something that says 15db or whatever rating as on a multiband antnna the db rating is usually for the highest frequency of the antenna. Using the model above as an example its ONLY 15db gain at 2700mhz at something more in the LTE spectrum like 2100 (band 4,66) its about 11 or 12 db or so and at 700 mhz its about 8 or 9db if I recall. Its all on the charts just be aware all companies always list the highest possible gain but at the highest frequency so if you use a lower frequency band like 700mhz (band 12,13,17)or 850mhz (band 2,5) your gain will be substantially lower then the advertised number.

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Re: Single or 2 15dbi mimo antennas is there a difference?

Post by Macusers » Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:13 pm

I’m using Verizon and its locking on b66. My speeds are between 3 and 5 on downloads and 1 to 2 on uploads with a weboost Yargi antenna on the outside. Also at times it’s switching to 5G as well. Not sure if that is n261.

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Adm1jtg
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Re: Single or 2 15dbi mimo antennas is there a difference?

Post by Adm1jtg » Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:25 pm

You mean like one of these:

https://www.weboost.com/products/314411

I started with one of these and then purchased a second one to run in mimo config. They are SLIGHTLY worse then the ltefix ones, at least on paper, but also can be found for about $50 each.

Would be curious what @mtl26637 thinks of them since he obviously has much more expierence in antennas then I do. I put my entire system together during early covid so my choices were extremely limited (ltefix was closed), but honestly I dont think there is enough difference between the wilsons and the ltefix antennas for me to buy new antennas and go back up on the roof and aim new antennas. Hard to read the specs directly on the ltefix ones but at 2100 (band 4/66) it appears to be about an 11-12db gain at the most and the wilsons CLAIM 10.5db, the upload gain will obviously be less on both as thats around 1800mhz if I recall properly.

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Re: Single or 2 15dbi mimo antennas is there a difference?

Post by mtl26637 » Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:26 pm

Lucky you! Vzw 5G isn't that wide spread from what I know around my parts but anxiously waiting on that as it will be my next go-to setup. No too familiar with the M5 but on the older MR1100 you had the ability to enable telnet and could log into and run some AT commands to show CA aggregated bands to get a better idea of your target signals. Depends on how far you want to go with it but in a location that has vzw 5G enabled I would think your speeds should be capable of 100's of megabits in the download. Vzw sub 6ghz (FR1) frequency ranges are n2, n5, n66 which equates to ~850Mhz or 1700-2100Mhz ranges so your typical LTE antennas should be able to do the job fairly well. It not like the Tmob main 5G band which is 600mhz and most LTE antennas don't have very good gain down that far.

mtl26637
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Re: Single or 2 15dbi mimo antennas is there a difference?

Post by mtl26637 » Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:37 pm

I too have one of the linked wilsons and was fairly happy with its performance. Unfortunately it was one of my first purchases and is located up past my 'climb limit' on my outside antenna so not much testing was done with it, lol. I did have good luck with it on ATT setup for what its worth.

Might keep note that if the M5 is anything like the MR1100, it has 2 external antenna connection ports (TS9) but does not have all 4 ports so it would at best use 2 external and 2 internal antennas. That being said it did show when comparing overall signal connections from say the MR1100 vs. a 4 antenna port modem with 4 external antenna connections (ultimately not exactly sure how the M5 has its RF frontend configured and when the 2 external ports are enabled if any internal antennas are disabled or even used?). Then again, I would assume if you were to use 2 of any of the aforementioned antennas discussed combined with the 2 internal antennas of the M5 you should see ^100mbps I would assume. But it does ultimately depend on how far away the tower is and how much a a 'line of site' you may have.

BTW, I'm assuming the M5 is similiar to the MR1100, please correct me if i'm mistaken. Last I looked I thought it was similiar but may be confusing modems.

If you can, post what info on your signal stats you have access to. It might help in deciding how much extra uumph you may need to get the results that modem is capable of.

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Re: Single or 2 15dbi mimo antennas is there a difference?

Post by Macusers » Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:40 pm

I looked up the cell tower it’s less than a mile but it’s through heavy woods. It’s showing bands 5, 13 and 66. Are any of those 5G bands? Not sure what constitutes 5G but my router switches from lte to 5G. Hope that helps.

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mtl26637
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Re: Single or 2 15dbi mimo antennas is there a difference?

Post by mtl26637 » Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:03 pm

Macusers wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:40 pm
I looked up the cell tower it’s less than a mile but it’s through heavy woods. It’s showing bands 5, 13 and 66. Are any of those 5G bands? Not sure what constitutes 5G but my router switches from lte to 5G. Hope that helps.

Thanks
Macusers
Close proximity is a MAJOR plus for sure. Woods is gonna be the biggest obsticle. Done some quick looking at datasheet for M5 (MR5200) and it looks like 5G bands n2 and n66 are out so if you are seeing 5G intermittent connection I would put my money on that its band n5 (850Mhz). I'm actually kinda surprised that you aren't seeing better speeds with a single external antenna and being within 1 mile from tower. Possible to go higher vertically with external antenna(s)? Might try some late night speedtests to see if congestion is playing a role?

In my area vzw loves to use LTE band 66 as their primary LTE anchor band that is if your signal is strong enough to latch on to it. Weaker signals will latch on to B2 or B13 if B66 is too weak. I would guess with a stronger solid signal you will see your LTE bands being B66 (1700-2200mhz) as your primary anchor and B5 (800-900Mhz) and B13 (~750Mhz) as your CA bands and possibly/hopefully n5 as your 5G band when operating in EN-DC mode. If you go with 2 external antenna setup you have the option to either go with 2 wideband antennas to 'catch-all' and let the modem decide whats best or if you knew more about the RF front end of the modem you could get 1 external for the lower bands (750-900Mhz) and the 2nd external for the (1700-2200Mhz) to get more overall gain to the modem. Since the antenna frequency-port mapping on that modem is probably a mystery it may be safe to just go with 2 wideband for now.

Been on a role today! Sorry for all the rambling, lol.

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Re: Single or 2 15dbi mimo antennas is there a difference?

Post by Macusers » Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:13 pm

I’ve looked into sending my m5 to Britain to add 3 additional SMA ports. I think they charge like a 150 to modify it. I found it on eBay by typing in nighthawk m5 modification. Below is the info. Not sure if this would help any.

The modification will give you 5x external antenna connections (4x 4G and 1x 5G).
This converts the internal 4G & 5G antennas for external use and allows you to attach external antennas to your router that wouldn’t have external inputs as standard
Some routers as standard have 2 external antenna inputs, however they only allow for 2x antennas. Due to the nature of 5G NSA (see below for more information on 5G types) 5G still needs a 4G signal before it can negotiate a 5G link. As the router is reliant on the 4G internal antennas weak signal to obtain 5G link it can struggle to negotiate a 5G link.

Other benefits to having your router modified:
Allows you to connect 5G antennas
Allows you to connect 4G antennas
Allows you to boost your speeds using 4x4 MIMO on 4G
Allows you to aggregate 4G and 5G speeds combined to boost speeds
Allows for carrier aggression on 4G (use multiple frequencies at once) boosting speeds
Increases signal, improving its speeds
Increases latency/ping
Increases stability and downtime

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