Local Tower Upgrades (Verizon)

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xdavidx
Posts: 248
Joined: Tue May 28, 2019 4:04 pm

Re: Local Tower Upgrades (Verizon)

Post by xdavidx » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:15 pm

swwifty wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:51 pm
So it seems the tower is probably not all that congested, i'm just rate limited.
I suppose the question there is whether you are being limited by only getting 2 carriers or limited within a carrier, or both.

It is *possible* that they don't have spacial multiplexing MIMO on that tower. You could test that by disconnecting the secondary antenna and seeing if the rate goes down significantly.

You could get an older version of Network Signal Guru if you have a rooted android phone and see the modulation rate. It might even show whether spatial multiplexing is happening for the MIMO. Obviously, the modulation will be affected by distance, but if you use the phone a few blocks from the tower, you'll find out what it supports.

swwifty
Posts: 382
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:21 pm
Location: NE GA Mountains

Re: Local Tower Upgrades (Verizon)

Post by swwifty » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:31 pm

xdavidx wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:10 pm
This might help with that: https://testmy.net/auto It won't show you how many bands you have, but you could possible tell, indirectly, based on speed.



Can you check the SINR during a speed test and without a speed test to see if that's the case?


I was able to get over 100 Mbps when close to an AT&T tower on 40MHz of bandwidth (20+10+10), and I'm sure there was some congestion due to variability. I was even able to get up to a peak of about 145 Mbps on 30 MHz (15+10+5) on another tower that same day.

I wish these things had a command to see the modulation rate. There is a chance there is an unpublished command, but I haven't found it yet.
I've checked the SINR during tests and it does seem to be higher, but really hard to tell for sure.

I wish too that I could see the modulation rate.

That test site is... interesting.

swwifty
Posts: 382
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:21 pm
Location: NE GA Mountains

Re: Local Tower Upgrades (Verizon)

Post by swwifty » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:32 pm

xdavidx wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:15 pm
I suppose the question there is whether you are being limited by only getting 2 carriers or limited within a carrier, or both.

It is *possible* that they don't have spacial multiplexing MIMO on that tower. You could test that by disconnecting the secondary antenna and seeing if the rate goes down significantly.

You could get an older version of Network Signal Guru if you have a rooted android phone and see the modulation rate. It might even show whether spatial multiplexing is happening for the MIMO. Obviously, the modulation will be affected by distance, but if you use the phone a few blocks from the tower, you'll find out what it supports.
That's a good idea. It seems like i'm getting 2x2 MIMO given that typically my upload speed is half my download speed and we all know that LTE only does SISO on upload, but I can give it a test.

I don't have a rooted android phone unfortunately, although I do have an Android phone.

I went close (within 500ft clear LOS) to the tower before and couldn't get faster than about 80mbps down.

xdavidx
Posts: 248
Joined: Tue May 28, 2019 4:04 pm

Re: Local Tower Upgrades (Verizon)

Post by xdavidx » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:35 pm

swwifty wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:31 pm
That test site is... interesting.
It isn't the best user interface, but I played around and got it working and used it for my own testing. It sure eats up the monthly bandwidth to do repeated tests. :lol: You're on unlimited with Verizon, so shouldn't matter.

xdavidx
Posts: 248
Joined: Tue May 28, 2019 4:04 pm

Re: Local Tower Upgrades (Verizon)

Post by xdavidx » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:01 pm

swwifty wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:32 pm
That's a good idea. It seems like i'm getting 2x2 MIMO given that typically my upload speed is half my download speed and we all know that LTE only does SISO on upload, but I can give it a test.
Yeah, I agree. You would think, without any congestion, and with great signal strength and SINR and equivalent modulation, and with primary and secondary carriers being the same width, that upload would be 1/4 of download. And in your case, with the first CID, you have 10 MHz as primary and 20 MHz as secondary, so that discrepancy should be even more. However, if the primary is congested, then it could tilt things such that the upload catches up a bit, since uploads are generally less congested than downloads.

66 down and 25 up (for your 10+20 case) would be about 38% of download. I guess the test will show either way.
swwifty wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:32 pm
I don't have a rooted android phone unfortunately, although I do have an Android phone.
Well, rooting is *far* easier than all this LTE and 802.11 stuff! :lol:

I plan on running an old version of it once I get my new phone. My current phone only supports HSPA+, not LTE. Other family members have LTE phones, but I've managed to not abduct them too much, aside from popping the AT&T sim in there when I first set up my account.
swwifty wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:32 pm
I went close (within 500ft clear LOS) to the tower before and couldn't get faster than about 80mbps down.
Yeah, so if you are able to see the QAM (and possibly MIMO type), then you'd know if that is the reason for the slowdown there. Maybe download won't go above 64QAM on that tower. It would also show which carriers you get on the phone vs what you are getting on the EM7565. You'd want to compare apples to apples CIDs though.

During daytime hours, when I'm right next to a tower in a more populated area, the speeds vary *greatly*. It can be hanging out at 60 Mbps for many minutes and then jump up to above 100 for a while and then back down. Probably just depends on how many people are streaming TV shows/youtube on their phone at the time. :cry:

swwifty
Posts: 382
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:21 pm
Location: NE GA Mountains

Re: Local Tower Upgrades (Verizon)

Post by swwifty » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:26 pm

xdavidx wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:01 pm
Yeah, I agree. You would think, without any congestion, and with great signal strength and SINR and equivalent modulation, and with primary and secondary carriers being the same width, that upload would be 1/4 of download. And in your case, with the first CID, you have 10 MHz as primary and 20 MHz as secondary, so that discrepancy should be even more. However, if the primary is congested, then it could tilt things such that the upload catches up a bit, since uploads are generally less congested than downloads.

66 down and 25 up (for your 10+20 case) would be about 38% of download. I guess the test will show either way.


Well, rooting is *far* easier than all this LTE and 802.11 stuff! :lol:

I plan on running an old version of it once I get my new phone. My current phone only supports HSPA+, not LTE. Other family members have LTE phones, but I've managed to not abduct them too much, aside from popping the AT&T sim in there when I first set up my account.


Yeah, so if you are able to see the QAM (and possibly MIMO type), then you'd know if that is the reason for the slowdown there. Maybe download won't go above 64QAM on that tower. It would also show which carriers you get on the phone vs what you are getting on the EM7565. You'd want to compare apples to apples CIDs though.

During daytime hours, when I'm right next to a tower in a more populated area, the speeds vary *greatly*. It can be hanging out at 60 Mbps for many minutes and then jump up to above 100 for a while and then back down. Probably just depends on how many people are streaming TV shows/youtube on their phone at the time. :cry:
I'd be pretty surprised if mimo wasn't turned on, but its possible i'm not getting the higher transmission modes, cause there's lots of different modes the LTE radios can be in depending on conditions.

I'm willing to bet its congestion, because a lot of folks I talk to around here have "hotspots" for home internet around here.

xdavidx
Posts: 248
Joined: Tue May 28, 2019 4:04 pm

Re: Local Tower Upgrades (Verizon)

Post by xdavidx » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:56 pm

swwifty wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:26 pm
I'm willing to bet its congestion, because a lot of folks I talk to around here have "hotspots" for home internet around here.
Those are some night owls if they were clogging it at 3 am. :D

swwifty
Posts: 382
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:21 pm
Location: NE GA Mountains

Re: Local Tower Upgrades (Verizon)

Post by swwifty » Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:01 pm

xdavidx wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:56 pm
Those are some night owls if they were clogging it at 3 am. :D
yeah which is even more confusing, makes me think maybe its just rate limiting? I mean netflix is rate limited on Verizon... so why not everything else?

xdavidx
Posts: 248
Joined: Tue May 28, 2019 4:04 pm

Re: Local Tower Upgrades (Verizon)

Post by xdavidx » Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:18 pm

swwifty wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:01 pm
yeah which is even more confusing, makes me think maybe its just rate limiting? I mean netflix is rate limited on Verizon... so why not everything else?
Maybe you have some other users who have a bunch of torrents all queued up and are constantly downloading. :x

It does seem like Verizon is more of the mind to play games vs the other providers, going off what others have posted and needing to use TTL tricks, etc.

Add an amp to your primary antenna on AT&T and you might have the best of both worlds (download and upload). Costs more, of course, for the equipment.

swwifty
Posts: 382
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:21 pm
Location: NE GA Mountains

Re: Local Tower Upgrades (Verizon)

Post by swwifty » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:13 pm

xdavidx wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:18 pm
Maybe you have some other users who have a bunch of torrents all queued up and are constantly downloading. :x

It does seem like Verizon is more of the mind to play games vs the other providers, going off what others have posted and needing to use TTL tricks, etc.

Add an amp to your primary antenna on AT&T and you might have the best of both worlds (download and upload). Costs more, of course, for the equipment.
an amplifier? a lot of the ones I've seen for LTE are $$$$

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