Latency Issues? (Solved: QMI > MBIM)

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xdavidx
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Joined: Tue May 28, 2019 4:04 pm

Re: Latency Issues? (Solved: QMI > MBIM)

Post by xdavidx » Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:45 pm

I thought maybe something might be messed up where you were on SPRINT or AT&T's firmware. GENERIC should be fine. Not sure if VERIZON would help you at all.

Where are you getting the 2% number? I've only seen a load number in the GoldenOrb UI. I haven't found a percentage number yet.

So without VPN and with QMI, your ping is still high? What do the low/high/average look like for google.com? I guess you are going to try a bunch of ping targets, so that should shed more light on it if you save the results.

At least the speeds went back up. Maybe just a temporary glitch on Verizon's end.

xdavidx
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Re: Latency Issues? (Solved: QMI > MBIM)

Post by xdavidx » Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:48 pm

And yeah, if that is the *best* Verizon tower you can get and the antennas are aimed well, then another tower probably won't get you better speeds. Of course, there are a lot of variables with bandwidth and bands. I suppose for a ping test, it might still be an okay test, just to see if latency is higher with one tower vs another, even if speeds are worse. You might only be able to get Band 13 for testing.

swwifty
Posts: 390
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Location: NE GA Mountains

Re: Latency Issues? (Solved: QMI > MBIM)

Post by swwifty » Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:31 pm

xdavidx wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:03 pm
I'm in the same boat. I've been doing my preliminary stuff with an extension cord. The EM7565 seems to be too power hungry to run with power over ethernet. So I'm going to have to run wire up to the roof. However, in order to do it right, a GFCI should be used. I also have a cell booster that I plan on locating outside the house as well. So rather than wiring directly to the enclosure, I think I'll end up putting a GFCI outlet on the roof and plug the router and my cell booster into that. I just need to find one that is fairly enclosed to protect it, and the AC/DC adapters, from the elements.
Can you elaborate on your issues powering the EM7565 via POE? I was planning on doing this soon :(

xdavidx
Posts: 258
Joined: Tue May 28, 2019 4:04 pm

Re: Latency Issues? (Solved: QMI > MBIM)

Post by xdavidx » Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:23 pm

swwifty wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:31 pm
Can you elaborate on your issues powering the EM7565 via POE? I was planning on doing this soon :(
I could be 100% wrong. Jim would probably have better guidance. I'm just going on theory, not on actual experience.

When I first got my equipment, I had no doubt that I would have the router inside and use LMR400 cables for the 50 feet or so from the roof to my basement. I bought a WE1326 router, since it had a gigabit ethernet port, so that I wouldn't hit a 100 Mbps bottleneck. That router doesn't allow for POE, but it didn't matter for me at the time.

Fast forward to a few weeks ago when I started getting more serious about putting together the gear needed for setting up my system. I realized that LMR400, over 50 feet, was going to lose enough signal that I'd probably want to go with LMR600. That was going to be pretty costly. I couldn't justify spending that much just to have the router inside.

I'd *really* like to have the router inside, because I'd like to have physical access to it in the case of any issues where I need to reset it. I'd also like the ability to temporarily take it with me to towers to get stats on bands and speeds, etc. There is no way in heck I can get on my roof in the winter, so if something bad happens, I'll be out of luck. Even in good conditions, my roof is too steep for me to be climbing around on it without a support of some type. I'm currently using an old garden hose tied off on the other side of the house, but I can't keep that up there indefinitely.

The end solution is that I'll have to put the router up on the roof. I can't use POE with the current router. I started looking at other routers that support POE. I also had in the back of my mind that I would need about 2.5 amps for peak usage, as I've read about other people having disconnect issues with lower current adapters. That could just be with certain combinations of modems and routers, but I didn't want to get all the equipment only to find out I didn't have enough power.

LTEFIX.com sells these power adapters for people who have those issues: https://ltefix.com/shop/power-adapter/1 ... ter-2-1mm/

It is also mentioned on the WE826-T2 page: https://ltefix.com/shop/routers/lte-rou ... te-router/
Power Adapter Upgrade:
Our WE826-T2 routers are special ordered to include a 2 Amp Power Adapter after determining that 1 Amp is insufficient when using the Sierra Wireless MC7455 modem under load–resulting in disconnection issues.

We strongly recommend upgrading to our top quality 12V 2.5A (30W) power adapter when using the Sierra Wireless EM7565 CAT12 modem. One must not underestimate the importance of providing adequate power to the router and modem.
With POE, the protocol standard version makes a difference regarding how much power can be transmitted. There is a maximum power transmitted, but the power available to the device is lower, due to losses in the power supply in the device, and transmission losses.

*If* we truly need 2.5 amps at 12 volts to prevent disconnects when the modem is at a full 3CA and the router is consuming at max power, then we need 30 watts. The original POE, 802.3af (same as 802.3at Type 1) supplies 12.95 watts to the device. I don't believe the power supply losses are included in that. 802.at Type 2 supplies 25.5 watts to the device. You have to go up to the relatively recent 802.3bt, Type 3 or Type 4, to get 51 watts or 71 watts, respectively, to the device.

Now, if we can get by with only 2 amps instead of 2.5, then we only need 24 watts. 802.at *might* be enough. So if you can find a router that supports 802.at POE, you *might* have enough power. I imagine it would depend on whether you are using the wifi radios too or have those shut off, how much of a load you are putting on the router CPU, etc.

As an alternative strategy, I though of getting an 802.3bt injector (or a non-compliant injector that supplies higher wattage than an af/at injector can) and then employing a POE splitter at the device end. This would split the power and the data lines out, such that you'd use the regular DC power input for powering the device and only getting the data lines at the ethernet port of the device. I didn't realize that LTEFIX.com sells such things until just now. I had looked at the prices for some of the devices through other sources and realized that I'd be losing much of the cost savings by going with POE vs longer antenna cables.

I just looked at LTEFIX.com's products. They are significantly less expensive than what I had looked at in my brief online searches. So you might be able to use that approach and ensure that you'll have enough current available to the device.

Here is the splitter from the store, built into a bulkhead connector: https://ltefix.com/shop/power-adapter/p ... mm-jumper/
Rated Voltage: DC12~57V;
Rated Current: 5A Max. ;
You'd have to ensure the router can handle the output voltage of the injector and you are using an injector that, when line losses are taken into account, can still deliver the 30 watts *at the device* (assuming we need that much). The ratings on the injectors will be at the source, not at the device. Alternatively, buy a splitter that is also a voltage converter, ensuring you get 12 volts out of the splitter. Alternatively, use the LTEFIX splitter, but add an extra DC-to-DC step down converter to provide a consistent 12 volts to the device.

I also see that there is a unique beastie for sale on the store: https://ltefix.com/shop/routers/lte-routers/wg3526-p/

ZBT doesn't list that one on their website, so I'm not sure if that is a special build for LTEFIX or LTEFIX modified the board or how that thing was born. It doesn't list 802.3bt, yet the specs for the power input for POE seem to match that protocol version. It is either that, or some special non-standard arrangement where there is a built in splitter on the other side of the WAN port of the router.

In my case, I also need to power a T-mobile booster device. https://support.t-mobile.com/docs/DOC-14947 I'm using an original version of that booster currently, with the window unit in an upstairs window. It barely gets signal, specially when it is wet outside. When I get a newer version (constantly back-ordered), I'll put it in an outdoor enclosure to get a better signal strength. It needs 12 volt power too, and there is no way to use POE, other than with an injector and splitter arrangement and not using the data portion.

It makes more sense for me to just run power to the location so that I can power the two devices. I thought I'd be adding a GFCI circuit from my subpanel circuit breaker that is in my equipment room, with a GFCI outlet outside near ground level, running wires from the load side up to the roof, through conduit, and a non-GFCI outlet on/near the roof. I planned on having a large, weatherproof outlet cover that the AC/DC adapters for the two devices would fit inside of.

It dawned on me that I do have power in the attic on that part of the house and I could probably tie into that circuit. I could put a GFCI on the inside of the attic and a non-GFCI on the outside, as originally planned. The only problem is if the GFCI trips, then I have to get up in the attic to reset it, vs just resetting it near ground level. The attic isn't easily accessible. I'm still debating which way to go with it. Hopefully the GFCI won't ever trip and I won't have to get up in the attic to reset it. The trade off is that possible issue vs the cost of the additional wire, conduit, conduit straps, LB box, etc.

As I was typing this, I thought of a 3rd solution. I could get DC extensions for the AC/DC adapters and plug them into an outlet in the attic. With the outlet being in the attic and only 12 volts output, a GFCI probably isn't even required by code. Although it wouldn't take much to add such an outlet. This would remove the need for outdoor outlets, waterproof covers, outdoor 120 volt wiring, conduit, etc.

I was leaning toward my first option (GFCI near ground level and running wire up to the roof), just to have the ability to reset the GFCI more easily. Now I'll have to think more about option 3, just using DC extensions from inside the attic to the roof. I'll have to consider wire length and DC voltage drop.

Just thought of another option. With the attic in play, I could put the router in the attic and use a shorter length of antenna cable that wouldn't break the bank and wouldn't lose that much signal. The only problem with this approach is the attic getting very hot and overheating the router. Our attics have horrible ventilation. Fixing that has been on my to-do list for years. It could easily get to 130 degrees up there. Operating temperature on the router is 104 F. I *could* put a temperature controlled fan on it, but that's a moving part that could fail and I might as well ventilate my attic at that point. :lol: This doesn't help with my cellular booster and I've also already bought the enclosures.

With your Pi setup, maybe you can get by with normal POE without a splitter. Does the Pi support 802.3af or 802.3at and how much power does the device draw without adding on the modem and USB enclosure?

swwifty
Posts: 390
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Location: NE GA Mountains

Re: Latency Issues? (Solved: QMI > MBIM)

Post by swwifty » Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:06 pm

With your Pi setup, maybe you can get by with normal POE without a splitter. Does the Pi support 802.3af or 802.3at and how much power does the device draw without adding on the modem and USB enclosure?
I currently power my setup with 802.3af. It doesn't look like the PI supports 802.3at from what I can find.

I have a splitter currently on my setup, and haven't noticed any connection issues that appear related to power issues (although i could be wrong, but i've always assumed my disconnects and resets via connection monitoring were due to signal issues).

I guess I'll find out soon enough. My PI currently sits at 3-5 watts usage via PoE with a MC7455 in the USB enclosure.

xdavidx
Posts: 258
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Re: Latency Issues? (Solved: QMI > MBIM)

Post by xdavidx » Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:29 pm

swwifty wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:06 pm
I currently power my setup with 802.3af. It doesn't look like the PI supports 802.3at from what I can find.

I have a splitter currently on my setup, and haven't noticed any connection issues that appear related to power issues (although i could be wrong, but i've always assumed my disconnects and resets via connection monitoring were due to signal issues).
So the Pi supports POE, but you aren't doing POE to the device? Why the splitter? What type of injector do you have?
swwifty wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:06 pm
I guess I'll find out soon enough. My PI currently sits at 3-5 watts usage via PoE with a MC7455 in the USB enclosure.
Wow! That's a tiny amount of power usage! That Pi must use hardly anything! Does it not have wifi? Is that at full download speeds?

How do you measure it? And is that with the Verizon tower or the further away AT&T tower? I'm guessing the distance to the tower will affect the power usage of the modem too.

You'll probably be just fine. I didn't pay super close attention when I had my router plugged into my inverter, but I think it bounced around between 20-30+ watts on the readout. I had my laptop plugged in some of the time, so that caused it to use closer to 100 watts, I think. I guess I could plug it in again if anyone is interested. I'm not sure how accurate the wattage meter is on the inverter.

I ordered a 10 foot 12 volt extension cord last night. I'm going to try that out to see if my setup remains stable with it. It is 18 gauge wire. A lot of those extenders are 20 or 22 gauge. With it being 18 gauge and a shorter length, I'm guessing I'll still be above 11 volts, with the original, thinner wire on the adapter included. For me, 10 feet, plus the original cable, should be plenty to get me out of the attic and to the router.

swwifty
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Location: NE GA Mountains

Re: Latency Issues? (Solved: QMI > MBIM)

Post by swwifty » Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:38 pm

xdavidx wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:29 pm
So the Pi supports POE, but you aren't doing POE to the device? Why the splitter? What type of injector do you have?


Wow! That's a tiny amount of power usage! That Pi must use hardly anything! Does it not have wifi? Is that at full download speeds?

How do you measure it? And is that with the Verizon tower or the further away AT&T tower? I'm guessing the distance to the tower will affect the power usage of the modem too.

You'll probably be just fine. I didn't pay super close attention when I had my router plugged into my inverter, but I think it bounced around between 20-30+ watts on the readout. I had my laptop plugged in some of the time, so that caused it to use closer to 100 watts, I think. I guess I could plug it in again if anyone is interested. I'm not sure how accurate the wattage meter is on the inverter.

I ordered a 10 foot 12 volt extension cord last night. I'm going to try that out to see if my setup remains stable with it. It is 18 gauge wire. A lot of those extenders are 20 or 22 gauge. With it being 18 gauge and a shorter length, I'm guessing I'll still be above 11 volts, with the original, thinner wire on the adapter included. For me, 10 feet, plus the original cable, should be plenty to get me out of the attic and to the router.
I am powering it via PoE. I have a Ubiquiti switch that does 802.3af. I opted to not use the raspberry pi PoE hat cause it was reported to have a lot of issues, so I went with a PoE splitter instead like this: https://www.amazon.com/UCTRONICS-PoE-Sp ... ics&sr=1-3

I was measuring it from the stats on my switch. 3-5 watts was common when it was connected to the AT&T service. I did just notice that my TX power seems to be much much lower now that I'm so close to the Verizon tower and using that. I typically don't see a TX power higher than 0 dbm.

I guess if I want to be absolutely sure about max power usage during high downloads, I should probably get a kill-a-watt device and measure it, before attempting to power the 7565 via POE.

xdavidx
Posts: 258
Joined: Tue May 28, 2019 4:04 pm

Re: Latency Issues? (Solved: QMI > MBIM)

Post by xdavidx » Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:06 pm

swwifty wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:38 pm
I am powering it via PoE. I have a Ubiquiti switch that does 802.3af. I opted to not use the raspberry pi PoE hat cause it was reported to have a lot of issues, so I went with a PoE splitter instead like this: https://www.amazon.com/UCTRONICS-PoE-Sp ... ics&sr=1-3
Oh yeah, you need 5 volts for the Pi.

I meant not powering the Pi via the Pi's own POE hardware.
swwifty wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:38 pm
I was measuring it from the stats on my switch. 3-5 watts was common when it was connected to the AT&T service. I did just notice that my TX power seems to be much much lower now that I'm so close to the Verizon tower and using that. I typically don't see a TX power higher than 0 dbm.
Back yard tower!! :lol:

You should be fine then with that setup.
swwifty wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:38 pm
I guess if I want to be absolutely sure about max power usage during high downloads, I should probably get a kill-a-watt device and measure it, before attempting to power the 7565 via POE.
You mean in case the switch data isn't accurate? Now you've really got me interested in measuring mine.

The problem with the kill-a-watt is it will measure the input to the AC/DC adapter, but won't give you the true DC current/voltage/wattage to the device. Same with me measuring out of my DC to AC inverter that is then going right back into the AC to DC adapter of the router. The adapter will lose some in the process, so it will read higher than what is being given to the device.

There are these types of meters for DC: https://www.amazon.com/bayite-6-5-100V- ... 1_3&sr=8-3

I think I might buy another, cheaper DC extension cord and cut it and put my regular multimeter on one of the lines so that I can measure this more accurately. Either that, or I'll order one of those DC meters to make it easier.

xdavidx
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Re: Latency Issues? (Solved: QMI > MBIM)

Post by xdavidx » Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:59 pm

I bought some do-dads to measure some of this. I started a new topic for the power discussion, measurements, etc.: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=439

serverside
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Re: Latency Issues? (Solved: QMI > MBIM)

Post by serverside » Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:17 pm

So, just to update this, after everything I did, I'm magically back to low ping, no VPN...I'm going to take a guess and say there was something horribly wrong with the tower I connect to, as I'm back to normal everything.

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