Latency Issues? (Solved: QMI > MBIM)

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swwifty
Posts: 390
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:21 pm
Location: NE GA Mountains

Re: Latency Issues? (Solved: QMI > MBIM)

Post by swwifty » Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:56 am

I've noticed that Verizon rate limits to various speed test sites. I believe they do this to help safe airtime on their spectrum. I'm guessing because a lot of people were doing speed tests which use a lot of unnecessary bandwith.

xdavidx
Posts: 258
Joined: Tue May 28, 2019 4:04 pm

Re: Latency Issues? (Solved: QMI > MBIM)

Post by xdavidx » Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:46 am

swwifty wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:56 am
I've noticed that Verizon rate limits to various speed test sites. I believe they do this to help safe airtime on their spectrum. I'm guessing because a lot of people were doing speed tests which use a lot of unnecessary bandwith.
Are they limiting it to a specific rate?

swwifty
Posts: 390
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:21 pm
Location: NE GA Mountains

Re: Latency Issues? (Solved: QMI > MBIM)

Post by swwifty » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:15 am

xdavidx wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:46 am
Are they limiting it to a specific rate?
I don't know, but the common speed test sites are very slow on download, but show a normal upload speed.

It became apparent after a while, because normal browsing / web traffic on Verizon's network was fast, but speed tests showed like 200kb/sec.

I did find some sites that weren't rate limited that offer speed tests, and it became apparent then.

xdavidx
Posts: 258
Joined: Tue May 28, 2019 4:04 pm

Re: Latency Issues? (Solved: QMI > MBIM)

Post by xdavidx » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:31 am

swwifty wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:15 am
It became apparent after a while, because normal browsing / web traffic on Verizon's network was fast, but speed tests showed like 200kb/sec.
Heck, an ISDN user would think that was heaven. :lol:

I guess times have changed a little since the '90s.

serverside
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:02 pm

Re: Latency Issues? (Solved: QMI > MBIM)

Post by serverside » Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:08 am

xdavidx wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:31 am
@serverside: Try setting the "use small packets" setting in your PIA VPN client. I looked back over your posts and saw that you mentioned that is your VPN provider.

https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/h ... eally-high

I don't see how it could help the ping command, but it might help with some of the regular data transfers you are doing.

One other thing I ran across is to revert a driver in Windows back to an earlier version (TAP Driver): https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/h ... ng-windows

Seems like they were having issues as recently as 3-4 months ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/PrivateInterne ... h_latency/
Looking into these, but I can't find a small packet option for the VPN setup on Rooter, tried advanced as well, no option. Still trying to figure that one out.

Doubt it's windows as it's same issue on android and linux :/

serverside
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:02 pm

Re: Latency Issues? (Solved: QMI > MBIM)

Post by serverside » Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:10 am

xdavidx wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:22 am
Well, I understand that you have Verizon issues, but my suggestion is to reduce variables if you want to figure out the cause of the slower pings. Fast.com is a unique situation and that will tell you how Netflix will behave, but to determine if the VPN is adding to the latency, I'd recommend trying some tests without the VPN.
This is with Fast.com, speedtest app android (ookla), ping to 1.1.1.1 and 8.8.8.8. If I don't use a VPN, everything is hosed. Packets get dropped like mad and the ping is through the roof.
xdavidx wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:22 am
- Try the speedtest app for Windows, on an ethernet connected PC for speed tests.
- Use the ping option in the GoldenOrb UI to google.com and also use ping from a command prompt in the Windows attached PC. The PC will allow you to run more than a few at a time with the -n switch.
Never used the speedtest app for windows, just fast.com and ookla speedtest.net. I use ping from cmd and the router, both are just as bad without the VPN.

xdavidx wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:22 am
If Verizon is snooping on the packets and destroys everything without it going through a VPN (meaning the above non-Fast.com tests are worse *without* the VPN than they are with the VPN), then my recommendation would be to try another VPN temporarily, just as a test. There are some free VPN providers out there that you could use for testing, even if they might not be sufficient for permanent use. They might still be blocked or crippled by fast.com/netflix, so leave that test out of the equation. I'm only talking about testing for speed and latency issues with and without the VPN and with another VPN, to a non-fast.com endpoint.
My next test was to jump onto a closer server from PIA, right now I'm using US east, and I live in TN. So going to give US Atlanta a go.

I've tried this on both my phones sim and the dedicated sim for my MC7455 and on the EM7455, using both a proxicast mimo 2x2 panel and 2 yagis at 45 degrees at 18" appart. Same thing, although I get really good speeds without a VPN from ATT in the location I tested. So right now I'm looking to build a Nema box buildout and put up my antenna's, just trying to figure out power right now (don't exactly want to run a 100' extension cord).
xdavidx wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:22 am
Obviously, there are a ton of variables with all this, but I'm just taking an educated guess that something might have changed in your VPN. If two cellular providers both showed the same symptoms, and neither had issues before, then it would seem to not be on their end. The other variables I can think of are:
I appriciate any help and brainstorming, cause I've been driven crazy over this. It was completely fine then one day I wake up my speeds are trash, so I contact the MVNO, like I normally do and have them reset the data, they do, and it didn't fix anything. (which it normally does).
xdavidx wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:22 am
- Antenna got pointed differently (not sure if you are using omni antennas or directional). I thought I read where you said the RSRP was strong or the SINR was good or something, so that would seem to rule out antenna issues. Maybe take a look at the RSRP values and SINR value again to be sure they are still good.
Antenna is right outside my window, and it hasn't changed. I am always looking at RSRP and SINR values, like modem debuging is open all the time lol.
xdavidx wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:22 am
- Hardware issues.

- Wifi issues if you are testing that way.
I don't think it is hardware cause it's same on two different antennas, and two different routers and modems, and two different sim cards on same plan on same carrier (MVNO).
xdavidx wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:22 am
- Firmware issues (router or modem). Re-flashing both could be done, but I think you said you had a lot of router settings you didn't want to lose.
Yea, I really don't want to be doing that, but at this point I'm about to Screenshot everything and rebuild on a new rooter version. ><
xdavidx wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:22 am
I wouldn't bet a lot on it, but my bet is still with something in the VPN changing, assuming all the other variables remained static between when it was good and when it went bad.

Does the VPN client run on your PC or in the router? And are you sure your VPN endpoint is still the same and didn't get switched to Switzerland or somewhere? :D
So I never used the VPN until this happened. When it happened I tested to see my speeds on the VPN client running the PC only and saw my speeds normal again, so I put the VPN on the router and I get proper DL/UL but ping is just boned.

VPN is US-East.

xdavidx
Posts: 258
Joined: Tue May 28, 2019 4:04 pm

Re: Latency Issues? (Solved: QMI > MBIM)

Post by xdavidx » Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:27 pm

It seems like you have multiple issues.

1) Without VPN, something weird is going on with Verizon. It seems AT&T is okay. Maybe switching to AT&T is your easiest option.

2) With VPN, latency is poor. This is to be expected with VPNs. It is just the nature of the beast. You can try different VPN servers and you can try different VPN providers and you can try running it with PIA's Windos client again, where you have more control over settings. The provider's client software will always provide more advanced options than a generic module in a router and might be fine tuned for their server end.

The other problem with VPNs is that they tax the CPU of a router quite a bit. And if you also have custom routes and filtering rules in the router, your max throughput decreases significantly. I have some test numbers I'll find and post to show how drastic it is.


Regarding (1), what do you get if you run:

at!impref?

and

at!image?

Also for (1), try as many speed test websites as you can find to see if ookla and fast.com are being throttled like swwifty found. Try pinging a lot of different endpoints too. Again, this is non-VPN.

Lastly, can you point to different Verizon towers and test what non-VPN is like with them? Maybe you have a good connection to the tower, but the tower or something upstream from it is in a bad state. I know vpn works, but maybe the bad state only exhibits the behavior wih unencrypted traffic.

xdavidx
Posts: 258
Joined: Tue May 28, 2019 4:04 pm

Re: Latency Issues? (Solved: QMI > MBIM)

Post by xdavidx » Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:03 pm

serverside wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:10 am
So right now I'm looking to build a Nema box buildout and put up my antenna's, just trying to figure out power right now (don't exactly want to run a 100' extension cord).
I'm in the same boat. I've been doing my preliminary stuff with an extension cord. The EM7565 seems to be too power hungry to run with power over ethernet. So I'm going to have to run wire up to the roof. However, in order to do it right, a GFCI should be used. I also have a cell booster that I plan on locating outside the house as well. So rather than wiring directly to the enclosure, I think I'll end up putting a GFCI outlet on the roof and plug the router and my cell booster into that. I just need to find one that is fairly enclosed to protect it, and the AC/DC adapters, from the elements.

xdavidx
Posts: 258
Joined: Tue May 28, 2019 4:04 pm

Re: Latency Issues? (Solved: QMI > MBIM)

Post by xdavidx » Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:38 pm

@serverside: Here are those tests that show how much routing rules and encryption affect the throughput capabilities of the MediaTek MT7621A processor, running at 880MHz. That's the processor used in my WE1326 router and your WG3526 router.

Your WE826 uses the MediaTek MT7620A, running at 580MHz.

The 7621 is dual core and the 7620 is single core. I would expect the results below to be a lot slower on the 7620. Besides the clock speed and core differences, the 7621 also has a hardware engine for encryption that the 7620 doesn't have. Whether that is used by the firmware is another thing and whether the hardware encryption is faster or slower than the CPU doing it is another thing. But offloading encryption to the hardware (if the firmware does that) does open the CPU up to do other things, like routing and filtering.


mt7621a_880mhz_ethernet_tests.png

mt7621a_880mhz_ipsec_tests.png

You can see where, with small packets, enough bridging/routing rules could start to become a bottleneck. Encryption, all by itself, could be a *huge* bottleneck. Add the two together and it could be a lot worse. Even medium sized packets could see a processing limitation with both routing rules and encryption combined.

*If* CPU is partly to blame for some of your issues, then daisy chaining another router could help to offload some of that processing. Testing the VPN client on the PC will show if CPU/VPN software features (in the router firmware) are playing a role in your issues. This is all regarding number (2) in my other post. Number (1) is a different issue with Verizon.

You'll never get lower latency with a VPN than without, on any system, however. I mean that in the context of a carrier that isn't doing weird things when you aren't using a VPN, of course. :lol:

serverside
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:02 pm

Re: Latency Issues? (Solved: QMI > MBIM)

Post by serverside » Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:34 pm

xdavidx wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:27 pm
It seems like you have multiple issues.

1) Without VPN, something weird is going on with Verizon. It seems AT&T is okay. Maybe switching to AT&T is your easiest option.
Yeah, today I turned off the VPN, and now am getting normal connection, ping is still high but download isn't 20kbs anymore. I'm trying to come up with a plan on the ATT deal to get my antenna where it needs to be with the modem.
xdavidx wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:27 pm
2) With VPN, latency is poor. This is to be expected with VPNs. It is just the nature of the beast. You can try different VPN servers and you can try different VPN providers and you can try running it with PIA's Windos client again, where you have more control over settings. The provider's client software will always provide more advanced options than a generic module in a router and might be fine tuned for their server end.
Trying this out as well today, to see if the small packets help any. Haven't had a chance to test though.

xdavidx wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:27 pm
The other problem with VPNs is that they tax the CPU of a router quite a bit. And if you also have custom routes and filtering rules in the router, your max throughput decreases significantly. I have some test numbers I'll find and post to show how drastic it is.
Hmm, need to check this, as without it my load on the router is like %2 peak over a 30 second span.

xdavidx wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:27 pm
Regarding (1), what do you get if you run:

at!impref?
at!impref?
!IMPREF:
preferred fw version: 02.08.02.00
preferred carrier name: GENERIC
preferred config name: GENERIC_002.007_001
current fw version: 02.08.02.00
current carrier name: GENERIC
current config name: GENERIC_002.007_001

OK
xdavidx wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:27 pm
and

at!image?
at!image?
TYPE SLOT STATUS LRU FAILURES UNIQUE_ID BUILD_ID
FW 1 GOOD 2 0 0 ?_? 02.08.02.00_?
FW 2 GOOD 1 0 0 ?_? 02.05.07.00_?
FW 3 GOOD 1 0 0 ?_? 02.14.03.02_?
FW 4 EMPTY 0 0 0
Max FW images: 4
Active FW image is at slot 1

TYPE SLOT STATUS LRU FAILURES UNIQUE_ID BUILD_ID
PRI FF GOOD 0 0 0 002.009_001 02.08.02.00_ATT
PRI FF GOOD 0 0 0 002.007_001 02.08.02.00_GENERIC
PRI FF GOOD 0 0 0 002.012_000 02.14.03.02_SPRINT
PRI FF GOOD 0 0 0 002.008_003 02.05.07.00_VERIZON
Max PRI images: 50


OK
xdavidx wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:27 pm
Also for (1), try as many speed test websites as you can find to see if ookla and fast.com are being throttled like swwifty found. Try pinging a lot of different endpoints too. Again, this is non-VPN.
Will do.
xdavidx wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:27 pm
Lastly, can you point to different Verizon towers and test what non-VPN is like with them? Maybe you have a good connection to the tower, but the tower or something upstream from it is in a bad state. I know vpn works, but maybe the bad state only exhibits the behavior wih unencrypted traffic.
Unfortunately the next tower is blinded by trees and hills. I don't think I'll ever be at level with it to get a good signal. This is the signal with the proxicast and tower I can hit now:

AT!GSTATUS?
!GSTATUS:
Current Time: 70751 Temperature: 54
Reset Counter: 1 Mode: ONLINE
System mode: LTE PS state: Attached
LTE band: B13 LTE bw: 10 MHz
LTE Rx chan: 5230 LTE Tx chan: 23230
LTE CA state: INACTIVE LTE Scell band:B4
LTE Scell bw:20 MHz LTE Scell chan:2050
EMM state: Registered Normal Service
RRC state: RRC Connected
IMS reg state: No Srv
PCC RxM RSSI: -72 RSRP (dBm): -101
PCC RxD RSSI: -71 RSRP (dBm): -98
SCC RxM RSSI: -102 RSRP (dBm): -123
SCC RxD RSSI: -99 RSRP (dBm): -123
Tx Power: 23 TAC: A104 (41220)
RSRQ (dB): -10.0 Cell ID: 02768701 (41322241)
SINR (dB): 10.2
OK

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